Is there a point at which recovery gets as "good as it's going to get ...

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Today, 07:49 AM	? #1 (permalink)
Member ? Join Date: Sep 2012 Posts: 4	Is there a point at which recovery gets as "good as it's going to get"? Hello all, new to the forum, was looking for an active place to discuss some concerns I had with my fiance and her drinking. I'll try to keep the backstory as brief but informative as possible. I'm 32, she's about to turn 28. We just got engaged on a trip to San Diego this month. Lived together for 2 years, been together for 3. When we met, I was a social drinker, as single males in their late 20's to be...but she was (is), self-admittedly, an alcoholic. She had gotten a DUI a year before and still had a breathilizer in her car. All these should have set alarm bells off all over my head...but my weakness (my own disorder if you will) is to be attracted to wounded characters. For really the first 2 years, she continued to drink every night. Usually a bottle of wine. When we would go out, she would get blackout. No idea when to stop, always wanting to keep her good feeling going. She never drank in the morning, she never hid anything...in short, except for the nights out, she was more or less a pretty highly functioning alcoholic. We have always been very active people, going to the gym, doing stuff outside or with our dogs. But when she drank she became moody, irrational, depressed and constantly threatened to breakup with me, even though by morning she back to normal usually. Well about a year ago, we went to an NFL game and she got so wasted that I just lost it. I told her things need to change...I've never threatened to break up with her or leave her but have tried to emphasize that I love her and that because of that and my desire to have a long, healthy life with her, there has to be change. So, reluctantly, she quit...cold turkey, for about 3 months. During that time we basically stopped going out and, more importantly, it was after the holidays and during winter so we didn't see much of her family. Her dad is a very high level functioning alcoholic. He's a big-time exec at a big bank but he drinks every day. Her friends all drink. Most of my friends drink. So we basically stayed hibernated for winter. Well, weather starts turning nicer and she's getting cabin fever and so she says she'd like to start going out to dinner a few times a week again, hanging out with family and friends again. She admits she cannot be around all that temptation without drinking but says she'll take it easy. Yeah, I know, I am naive but when she's being sweet and responsible sounding, it is hard to say no. I do at least draw one boundary line in the sand and say there will be no drinking at home. No sitting around at night blowing through a bottle of wine (or any level of alcohol). So we start to go out more and gradually she starts to drink more. The last 6 months have basically seen it level off at 3 drinks for her when we go out to dinner or with friends, which is about 3-4 nights a week. Then every couple of months she'll have a really bad night where we go out with a bunch of her friends and like usual, even if she sets her own limit, she has no concept of how to enforce it once the first drink hits her mouth. Bottom line is this...although she's highly functional and although the situation seems to have plateaued and she is certainly much better than she was the first couple of years...it still bothers me that she has a dependency. She now tries to convince me that we need to go out to dinner a lot..."oh let's go here I'm craving some sushi!" to appeal to me when in reality she simply wants a few glasses of wine. Or we'll go to an art fair and she'll say "let's leave by 4" and 4 rolls around and she's begging to stay longer...because she wants to drink more wine. I feel like I am always going to be second most important to drinking for her even though I know she loves me to pieces. Her side of the story is that she is much better than she used to be, that she has improved so much just for me (she has...but maybe the problem is she didn't improve for herself?) and that she does go 3 or 4 nights (more like 2-3 in reality) a week without drinking. I continue to push her to deal with the depdency and we continue to get into arguements. It's to that end that I've grown fatigued and basically am asking myself..."we have more-or-less a great life, we love each other...she does drink 3-4 nights a week...but is it really worth fighting at this point"? Should I just be thankful for what I have not try to mold this perfect spouse with no chemical dependencies? Am I simply guilting her for no real reason now?
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Today, 07:58 AM	? #2 (permalink)
Member ? Join Date: Nov 2007 Posts: 77	What you will see and hear here, over and over, is that alcoholism is a progressive disease. It won't get better without abstaining completely and working a program, and it wont stay the same. She will get worse. In my experience, its common for alcoholics to think they are in control if they don't drink daily or stop after some predetermined amount. At some point, their perceived control goes out the window and they continue to make excuses. It's a hard life. Know what you are getting into. Listen to your gut.
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Today, 08:10 AM	? #3 (permalink)
Member ? Join Date: May 2012 Location: Florida Posts: 232	I agree completely with ichabod, I think what you are seeing now is the BEST of a progressive slide that won't stop unless she stops drinking. At 28 she's relatively healthy & her body & mind are better able to handle the abuse she is inflicting on it. So much so that she probably doesn't really, fully feel the effects of the drinking. She's not just saying she's in control, she probably honestly thinks that she is. But her reality is skewed. What kind of future do you envision? Kids? Are you prepared for what that means with an alcoholic spouse? I'm not sure how long you've been here at SR, but there is SO much information here that can help you. Jump in & start by reading all the stickies, very educational! __________________ ~FireSprite
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Today, 08:14 AM	? #4 (permalink)
Member ? Join Date: Sep 2012 Posts: 4	Quote: I agree completely with ichabod, I think what you are seeing now is the BEST of a progressive slide that won't stop unless she stops drinking. At 28 she's relatively healthy & her body & mind are better able to handle the abuse she is inflicting on it. So much so that she probably doesn't really, fully feel the effects of the drinking. She's not just saying she's in control, she probably honestly thinks that she is. But her reality is skewed. What kind of future do you envision? Kids? Are you prepared for what that means with an alcoholic spouse? I'm not sure how long you've been here at SR, but there is SO much information here that can help you. Jump in & start by reading all the stickies, very educational! I'm starting FS, just found this place this morning. A pre-thank you to everybody here Yeah I think we want one kid eventually...she claims that when she becomes pregnant she will just stop drinking...and part of me wants to believe it because if there's something she is as dependent on as alcohol it is the need to be healthy (in every other way but that...I know there is some irony in that statement). But in the end, I suppose that claim of hers right now, even though she believes it, will be quite difficult to hold up when it comes time to pay the piper.
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Today, 08:19 AM	? #5 (permalink)
Member ? Join Date: Jul 2012 Posts: 122	BK, I hear you saying that you are trying to make yourself accept unacceptable behaviour, and rationalize this unacceptable behaviour to make yourself feel better. Is that how you want to live the rest of your life? You are young, intelligent, and like most of us, in love. But trying to fix/manipulate/control her drinking - is not the answer. My Wife has 'slowed down' as well, but the marriage and how I feel about it have not changed. I never know when the next 'a little too much' will happen and if I don't spot it fastenough coming on, I will be berated and told what a worthless POS I am and how I've ruined the marriage. Trust me, this is not a great way to live. Good Luck to you. Just think about what other say who have been down this ugly road before. Welcome to SR, it's been a life-changing place for me.
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Today, 08:23 AM	? #6 (permalink)
Member ? Join Date: Jul 2012 Posts: 122	Quote: Yeah I think we want one kid eventually...she claims that when she becomes pregnant she will just stop drinking...and part of me wants to believe it because if there's something she is as dependent on as alcohol it is the need to be healthy (in every other way but that...I know there is some irony in that statement). But in the end, I suppose that claim of hers right now, even though she believes it, will be quite difficult to hold up when it comes time to pay the piper. My Wife quit the day she found out she was pregnant, and didn't drink until she quit breastfeeding one year after birth. But then she got right back into it, and even started doing it more. Having a child is stressful on everyone, even a non-alkie. Put a sick person and add huge amounts of stress, and it could be trouble. I would think LONG and HARD about bringing a baby into this unless she is 100% sober. Trust me on this one
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Today, 08:27 AM	? #7 (permalink)
Member ? Join Date: May 2011 Location: Delran, NJ Posts: 1,959	BK, what if your best friend told you this story, what would you tell him? One of the hardest things for me to learn, and I'm still learning it, is that it is OK to take care of myself, it is OK for me to put me first. So, welcome and keep coming back, there are huge amounts of experience, strength and hope (ES&H) to be found here. Pretty much all of us know what it is like to be in your position because we have been there or are still there. Your friend, __________________ Mike Serenity is just being me.
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Today, 08:38 AM	? #8 (permalink)
Member ? Join Date: Sep 2012 Posts: 4	Quote: You are young, intelligent, and like most of us, in love. But trying to fix/manipulate/control her drinking - is not the answer. Given that this particular forum is about us treating ourselves and knowing that it is impossible for one to "fix" another person...should I surmise that it is the setting of your own boundaries and rules that will induce the change, either in the status of the relationship or the other person's willingness to seek their own help? I've done some reading on the boundaries part that is useful. My problem has often been that the boundaries I am trying to set are meant for her, not me and thus they don't work. Example..."Let's try and eat out only once or twice this week, we'll save money and drink less". Probably not a good "boundary" example huh? Last night, I got home from work, ate dinner...she calls me up an hour later, says she is leaving work and to meet for sushi. AKA...she wants to drink some wine. I told her I was full, was in my comfy evening clothes and didn't want to go out. She threw a hissy fit over text, said she was just going to go by herself then. I let her. I feel like this was at least a step in the right direction because I didn't help enable her or make some wishy-washy statement.
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Today, 08:50 AM	? #10 (permalink)
Member ? Join Date: Jul 2012 Posts: 122	Quote: Given that this particular forum is about us treating ourselves and knowing that it is impossible for one to "fix" another person...should I surmise that it is the setting of your own boundaries and rules that will induce the change, either in the status of the relationship or the other person's willingness to seek their own help? I've done some reading on the boundaries part that is useful. My problem has often been that the boundaries I am trying to set are meant for her, not me and thus they don't work. Example..."Let's try and eat out only once or twice this week, we'll save money and drink less". Probably not a good "boundary" example huh? Last night, I got home from work, ate dinner...she calls me up an hour later, says she is leaving work and to meet for sushi. AKA...she wants to drink some wine. I told her I was full, was in my comfy evening clothes and didn't want to go out. She threw a hissy fit over text, said she was just going to go by herself then. I let her. I feel like this was at least a step in the right direction because I didn't help enable her or make some wishy-washy statement. I'm not so good at the boundary part, but need to learn. Others here can help with that part. I tried the "let's save some money and drink less" - that lasted exactly two days, then she made up for the two days she missed. I think you did well last night by knowing what her motives were (from past experience) and told her to go on her own. I will no longer go to the booze store for my Wife, I will no longer pour my Wife a drink.
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Today, 08:53 AM	? #12 (permalink)
Member ? Join Date: May 2011 Location: Delran, NJ Posts: 1,959	Quote: I often get the "stop making me feel guilty all the time, I'm a lot better now so why do you have to constantly make me feel guilty about myself" answer when I do this. I assume that is a common issue? You bet it is. I am much better but still getting the hang of this. For me, it comes down to I don't need some one else's approval to decide to do things that I want to do. For example, if I don't want to go out I don't have to go out, you can go or not go, that is your choice, my choice is to not go. Also, I don't need to ask approval or get permission to make a choice for myself. I am giving myself permission to make my own choices. For me there has been a huge amount of freedom in that mindset. Your friend, __________________ Mike Serenity is just being me.
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Today, 08:53 AM	? #13 (permalink)
Member ? Join Date: Feb 2008 Location: Chicago area Posts: 3,987	Quote: I've done some reading on the boundaries part that is useful. My problem has often been that the boundaries I am trying to set are meant for her, not me and thus they don't work. You are onto something very important, here. A boundary never seeks to change or control another person. Trying to control another person or compel them to change results in mutual resentments and do not work. Boundaries are "I" statements, such as "I don't do romantic relationships with people in active addiction/alcoholism or early recovery." A boundary protects us and does not seek to control or change other people. It's the opposite of you will/ will not... or else...." Enforcing a boundary means we take responsibility for it and remove ourselves from the situation. A boundary respects that other people have a right to live their life as they choose and so does the boundary setter.
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Today, 09:23 AM	? #14 (permalink)
Member ? Join Date: Dec 2010 Location: Midwest, USA Posts: 495	Quote: should I surmise that it is the setting of your own boundaries and rules that will induce the change, either in the status of the relationship or the other person's willingness to seek their own help? Ha. Yes, pretty much. You're lucky that you're seeing this now, and not 8-10 years and three kids later. Boundaries aren't even things that you need to tell your partner about -- they aren't ultimatums, they're about your internal resolve. Like, I won't be treated this way, or I'm not going to babysit her through another party, or this subject is off the table, or the engagement is off for now, or I have no interest marrying an alcoholic, functional, recovered, or not. But with these boundaries in place, you've got an over-arching philosophy of yourself and what you're worth that you can turn to when she's quacking her alcoholic excuses at you and you're confused by the difference between what she does and what she says. Eventually you can say, you know what, I'm not fighting against this current while you try to drown yourself. Or not. Certainly enough of us have tried to stick it out for love, hoping that our partners were the exception. I certainly did. Mine relapsed this week. We are separating. Addiction is no joke. I don't wish it on anyone. __________________ Half the harm that is done in this world is due to people who want to feel important. They don't mean to do harm but the harm does not interest them. Or ...they justify it because they are absorbed in the endless struggle to think well of themselves. -- T. S. Eliot
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Today, 09:44 AM	? #16 (permalink)
Member ? Join Date: Jul 2012 Location: SAN FRANCISCO Posts: 492	I feel your pain... My exbf was a big drinker, all of his friends drank, he loved the bar "scene" I tried to get him to cut down and sometimes he would, made all sorts of promises, he'd quit drinking so much, he'd quit smoking. If I refused to go with him to the bars or his parties with the drinking buddies he would go anyway and I'd get accused of being anti-social. I tried setting limits, ultimatums, there were times when he would be so drunk in the middle of the day he wouldn't want to see me. Anyway you look at it, you are fighting a losing battle here. With my ex, arguing about his drinking never seemed to make things any better. We ended up breaking up. I am sad that I lost the relationship but I sure do not miss wondering which bar he is at now. If you can get the book "Codependent No More" I would highly recommend it. You can't change or "mold" anyone to be perfect but you can decide if you want to live with someone who has a drinking problem.
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Today, 10:08 AM	? #17 (permalink)
Member ? Join Date: Aug 2011 Posts: 130	Quote: Last night, I got home from work, ate dinner...she calls me up an hour later, says she is leaving work and to meet for sushi. AKA...she wants to drink some wine. I told her I was full, was in my comfy evening clothes and didn't want to go out. She threw a hissy fit over text, said she was just going to go by herself then. I let her. I feel like this was at least a step in the right direction because I didn't help enable her or make some wishy-washy statement. This kind of thing is what "worked" for me...assuming you were truly staying in because you wanted to. I had such a hard time doing or not doing thinks because of my own choices/wants and not because I was trying to help him not drink/use. I am a great Anticipater of Needs and Protector from Uncomfortable Situations. Things got worse/better when I stopped focusing on "helping" him make the right choice. I say worse because it was uncomfortable as hell for me when I first started...fear, anxiety and feeling helpless all SUCK and learning to sit with these feelings and not try to fix things was no fun. I'll echo the people that are saying to wait and think before having kids. They are wonderful but they thrust you into a situation where you are less in control of things than you have ever been. They are needy, it's just the nature of things, and there moments of incredible love, joy and hope...you will also feel helpless in a way you never thought possible. My son is 4.
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Today, 10:13 AM	? #18 (permalink)
Another Day in Paradise ? Join Date: Feb 2007 Location: Upland, CA Posts: 767	I have been sober quite a few years, but I was a "highly functional alcoholic" with all sorts of stuff and a great career. I didn't lose control, until I lost control. As for the wives that knew I was pretty much all right, but did have a problem. They are now EX-WIVES. I am sure they can tell you how that worked out. Life is great now, but it didn't happen until I DECIDED TO GET SOBER FOR ME. Those around me get the benefit now, but they got all the problems then. Tell her to call for Sushi when she is sober and wants to eat raw fish. Best of luck, Jon __________________ Indecision may or may not be my problem!
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